Interview With Scott Buchanan

What is NOT stated in the interview

Do not add any of these. None of them are said in the clips:

• The name of his current company or salons.
• What city or state he is in today. Everything named is New York (Manhattan, 72nd Street, Columbia University, Long Island).
• Whether he still owns any salons, or how many he has now. He says he “grew them to five locations” and the company grew to 220 “at one time,” both in past tense.
• When he bought his first salon (no year given), or when he opened the second.
• Any current role at Aveda, or whether he still works with the brand.
• His age, or the year of the interview.
• What he does now (coaching, consulting, education). He mentions teaching his team and being a mentor, but no business or title.

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Falling into the beauty industry

Rebekah: So Scott, just tell us a little bit about how you got started. Did you want to be in the beauty industry? Did you kind of fall into it? Tell us how you got into the beauty industry.

Scott: Well, I definitely fell into it. My mom had passed away when I was very young. I was 16. I was an orderly in a nursing home and I saw an ad on TV about being a hairdresser and I thought, oh, that’d be good. Maybe I should try that, because I didn’t really know what I was gonna do and I didn’t like blood and I wasn’t really good at school.

So I went to beauty school. I went to [name unclear] in New York and Manhattan. And as I was there, I started to realize that I was enjoying it and that I liked it and that I was good at it. I finished school, and in New York, it’s a thousand hours.

I went and I got a job down on 23rd Street back in 1980. Dorothy Hamill was a big ice skater and she had this wedge haircut that was very famous, like Jennifer Aniston’s became famous. This woman wanted that haircut, and about an hour and a half later, she was crying and I was crying because I didn’t know how to do it. The owner took over and then I left that salon and I never went back. I was devastated and I thought, I need education.

So I went out to [name unclear], which is [inaudible] Long Island, and [name unclear] was the owner there. It was a big salon with education and I trained under him as a haircutter for the next four years. I was his apprentice and I helped him only, and that’s where I got my training. That’s where I realized education’s important, and I started to hone in on my skills and I started to see what the salon world and operation could be like. I slowly fell in love with hairdressing.

So I worked with [name unclear] and I finally got my own chair there and I had my clients. And then I wanted to move into Manhattan from Long Island. So I did, and I met some people, I ran their salon. And then I went to the IBS show in New York and I met Horst Rechelbacher, who is the owner of Aveda Corporation, and it was a brand new company. I think it was started in ‘78. I just fell in love with his philosophy and who he was, and he didn’t have a salon in New York. When he learned that I was managing a salon, I told the owners, we need to take out your private label and we need to put this brand in. And so that’s how I became the first salon in New York City to have Aveda. Fell into Aveda, and then I started training with him and doing shows with him and platform work with him. And those little yeses all the way around.

Learning hair color

Rebekah: So your passion was more about the hair, about the people in your chair, right?

Scott: Yes, I loved that part of it. I loved that. Well, I was a trained haircutter, and we were departmentalized in Long Island. So I never did hair color. And then when I got to New York, I realized the person next to me was a colorist and they were doing less people than me and making more money. So I said, I gotta learn how to do this hair color. So I taught myself and went to classes and trained myself to be a commercial hairdresser. I am definitely not a colorist that goes on stage and does avant-garde color work. I appreciate it and admire it and get inspired by it, but I’m a commercial colorist.

Buying the first salon

Rebekah: So what made you leave the salon that you were managing to start your own, and how did you transition from that?

Scott: You know, I brought Aveda in. I was there, I was working. He didn’t want to grow and I wanted to grow. And so I just thought, well, I need to do something else.

A friend of mine used to own these [name unclear] stores where they had fancy socks with little trinkets on them, and he used to have lingerie. And I thought, well, let me go [inaudible]. He had a factory on 19th Street or 18th Street. He would get these socks and cut them up and put a zipper in them and sell them for $20. And I thought, this is amazing. So I started to work for him, but I kept cutting hair at a friend of both of ours on the Upper West Side on 72nd Street.

And then all of a sudden I realized I didn’t want to do the sock thing, that I missed hair, and I had my same clients. [inaudible] my very first client [inaudible], and she was still coming to me.

I had the opportunity to buy the salon I was in. It was a 450 square foot, five chair salon, the north side of 72nd and Columbus. I bought it. I went to my uncle and I asked him if he could lend me money. It was $40,000, I think it was. He said yes, with interest right away. No free money in my family. And then my cousin taught me how to read a spreadsheet and how to do it all, because all I knew was how to be a good hairdresser behind the chair, and I had a big clientele. So I knew that part very well, but I did not know the business, and so my cousin helped me do that. And I remember thinking, well, I had to do $7,000 a week and I would be OK. That’s how it started. And then I slowly taught myself everything from there.

Growing into a second location

Rebekah: [Clip begins mid-question.] Did you have mentors that taught you the business side?

Scott: My cousin was the big help in the very beginning. And then after I was in that first location for about a year, we had outgrown it and I wanted to move. So I moved south of 72nd Street, about four stores down, and we moved into 750 square feet. So that was like a castle compared to 450. And I put in a little spa room, so now I was entering into the spa world, because that was starting to pick up.

Through that I just started to learn more business. I started to learn construction. I started to learn design of space, just because it was right there and I was doing it. I’m a firm believer in surrounding yourself with the right people and people smarter than yourself. So I happened to have some great people from great companies that really helped me learn design and meet architects and meet people that would help me do that. And so I started very small at the 750 square feet and moved from there.

I got an opportunity to open my second location by Columbia University, which was just through conversation, through clients whose husband was in the coffee business. He [inaudible] a lot of restaurants in Manhattan and had a location [inaudible] town, and was like, you know what, I want to put a coffee bar. And they were just coming in. Starbucks was not even really around, or just beginning. I’d love to have your salon on top. We became business partners.

That was my second location. Opportunities, and saying yes, and meeting people. And I became in love with numbers and in love with the business after the fact. So then learning how to lead a team, and what a team was, and how to create that. And then I did that, and so that was another piece of the pillar that I say it takes to being a salon owner. For me, it’s all about the team.

Why the people keep him going

Scott: [Clip begins mid-sentence.] Growing my salons. I grew them to five locations because really, about the people, and the people I got to help make careers and lives for themselves. Unfortunately, a lot of the people in the industry are single moms. Now they can make a good six figure living and I can help with that, so that’s beautiful. That’s what keeps me going.

Lead people, manage systems

Scott: I started with five people. My company grew to 220 at one time. You’re not around every minute for every conversation, for every observation. So as a leader, you have to start to think of systems that you can put into place so that people can follow them. Another thing I always say is, you lead people, manage systems.

Rebekah: I love that.

Scott: You don’t manage people. That’s when they leave. But I lead people and I manage the system. So I create the systems for them to follow. And I don’t have to tell them that they’re wrong. You’re just not following the system of how we answer the telephone here, or how we greet a guest, or how we do a shampoo. The more tools you can give people and empower them to put their own spin on it, the better off they are, and the better off the company is, and the better off the guest is. And if you create that, triple win.

Systems take the personal out of it

Rebekah: It’s not personal. I think you’ve talked about this. It’s policy, right? And so when you have those systems in place that you’ve talked about, then you can not offend someone, because it’s part of the policy.

Scott: Most of the people in the beauty business, including myself, were emotional first, rational second. And a lot of times I found leading people that when you start to tell them, and you try to manage them, to micromanage, they take things personally, and it becomes their five-year-old self, that they get upset and they’re defending. Creating systems, it’s like, no, it’s nothing about you. It’s a system. Here’s the system. Do you understand the system for greeting a guest? Do you understand the system for shampooing? It’s not anything you’re doing personally. People take things personally. I find the more systems you put in place, the better it is to just talk about the system, not the person.

Rebekah: I love that. And if the system’s not working, then you improve it, right?

Scott: Yes. So even though I create a lot of systems, I bring them in to help me polish the system, and systems need to change. Systems when you’re five people versus systems when you’re 20 people, the system has to change. It can’t be the same system, because there’s more people involved.

Rebekah: That’s right.

Scott: So some systems don’t last the length of time. They’re not in stone forever. A value might be, but a system to run something has to change as the company changes.

Rebekah: So you’re saying that you bring your team in to help, and that way they can feel ownership in it, instead of it just being something you say, hey, follow the system. Even though you may have the answers to what should happen, you bring them in and you let them create it with you.

Scott: Yes. Create the last 10%, create the last 20%. A dress code would be just one off the top of your head. You’re going to have a dress code, but you might have them help create what the dress code looks like. You’re not walking out of the meeting without a dress code, but you’re not quite sure whether it’s going to be black, or black and white, or blue and blue, or whatever. If they’re a part of that vision, people will feel more engaged, more empowered to follow it and to guide it and to help others get on board that are maybe a little slower to get on board, because not everybody gets on board as quick. And most people hate change.

The triple win

Rebekah: You talk a lot about that, the triple wins. Tell us.

Scott: Good for the guest, good for the client, and good for the team.

Rebekah: Okay.

Scott: And that’s a triple win. If one of those things is not winning, then the decision shouldn’t be made that way. So when you’re…

Rebekah: That’s really good.

Scott: When I teach my team that, I teach new people when they come in the company. If you’re thinking about what should I do, should I do this or not, I say, well, does it create a triple win? Is it good for the guest? Is it good for the team, and is it good for the company or me?

Rebekah: Yeah.

Scott: You know, that’s not good. [inaudible], then there must be a better solution. There’s another way to do it where everybody can win.

Rebekah: Yeah.

Rebekah: That’s a good life lesson for anything, really. Does it have a triple win? Does it pass that test or not, right?

Scott: Yeah. And it’s funny when I watch people use it, or they’ll come to me and say something like, you know, I made it a triple win. That wasn’t in the beginning.

Different voices around the table

Rebekah: You obviously have teams that help you create that, but then how do you implement a new system with someone that wasn’t involved in creating it?

Scott: There’s the implementation, or the birth of it, and then it becomes a system and then it is just what it is. Maybe that new employee will be in on the second revision of that system, because now they’re in there, or as you do things, things change. So not everyone’s involved in everything.

Susan Scott has a great book, Fierce Conversations, which is a fantastic book about having robust conversations central to your success. One of her modules is called Team. And it’s about having team meetings and how to have diversified meetings, and bring different aspects of thinking to a meeting, instead of having a meeting full of the same people, like-minded people thinking the same way around the table. That’s not really thinking. That’s just a different twist on the same word. But to have diversified thinking. So someone from the shampoo area, someone, a guest, someone from the front desk, maybe your bookkeeper, maybe a manager, maybe just a hairdresser. So diversify the thinking around the table, because everyone’s gonna think from their own perspective and everyone has an opinion, but that’s how you’ll get the best end result for everybody.

Listen to the quiet one

Scott: [Clip begins mid-sentence.] And always listen to the quiet one. Everyone has people in their group that are quiet, and sometimes the loudest always wins. I always look for the person that’s just sitting there looking like they’re not engaged, but I know they’re engaged but just quiet, and I give them their five minutes to speak. Sometimes there’s a lot of gems out of that. So I would tell the listeners to look for the quiet ones and make sure you inspire them just as much as you do, because a lot of times people like myself who are gregarious, we get attracted to someone else just like us. So we are both busy talking, and then the quiet one is sitting in the corner and I miss the wisdom that they might have.

Rebekah: So how do you get them to speak up if they’re just sitting there quiet?

Scott: Well, in Susan’s book she talks a lot about inviting everybody to speak, and she has a whole format where you as an owner put down what the issue is, and then you invite everybody. You give everybody five minutes to speak on the topic. Okay, if I wasn’t being that formal with this sheet of paper, I would just be talking and I’d say, okay, Rebekah, what are your thoughts?

Rebekah: You know, sometimes you just have to be invited. It doesn’t take more than that.

Scott: That’s right. And I might open a meeting up and say, listen, I want to hear from everybody today, and I believe everybody has an opinion about what I’m going to talk about, so please don’t be shy, and I am going to go around the room and have everybody share.

Scott: Yeah. And if I knew they were shy, I’d probably tell them early on, when I invited them to come to the meeting, listen, I know you’re shy, but I really value your opinion. And I give her a little one-on-one coaching.

Share your vision

Rebekah: What advice would you give to hairdressers in our industry, maybe other salon owners that are watching this? What would be the main advice you’d wanna give to them?

Scott: We’re gonna go back to Susan’s book. One of her main principles is the conversation is the relationship. What conversations are you engaged in today? And how are you engaging both your guests and your team to share in your vision? And make sure you share it, because so many times I talk to people that have an idea of where they wanna go with their business, but they don’t tell anybody. They expect it to be gotten there by osmosis. You really have to tell your story and tell your vision so that people can come on board and follow and help you to be a part of that vision. When that happens, all of a sudden you’ll start to see this growth that’ll just be unbelievable.

And say yes. Don’t let fear get in your way. If I would have thought about every step of the way, I wouldn’t be halfway to where I was. It’s very fearless in a smart way, not in a radical way, but in a smart way. And so you don’t have to overanalyze things. I still do that sometimes. That can still get in my way when I overanalyze something. Just believe that everything will be alright and believe in your vision, and then go forward and take the next right action.

Rebekah: That’s good. And I love how you talked about sharing that vision, because people can’t read our minds. And a lot of times they may say, I wanna help, but I don’t know how. But if we’re sharing it, then they’re able to get on board. But if you don’t share it, then you probably won’t get help, right?

Scott: Yeah. So many times you gotta let them in. You gotta let people in to your world, to your vision, and then you’d be surprised how many people help you.

Rebekah: That’s so good.

Scott: They do. I like to surround myself with people that like to help each other, that we’re better as a whole.

Enhancing the beauty within

Rebekah: When you go to your about section on your website, it talks about how your goal, your main goal, is really to enhance the total beauty that lies within someone. Talk about that a little bit.

Scott: To enhance the total beauty that lies within us all. So that really does not just mean the external guest, but that means my team and myself. We all are beautiful souls. When we are feeling grounded and we’re feeling loved and we’re feeling connected, we all shine. So that’s what I feel hairdressing does. We can take something externally and it helps us internally. And the mission of the team is really to enhance that beauty that everyone has. Beauty’s in the eyes of who you are.

I just feel that we have to look for that special spark and try to find it in people. And sometimes it’s with a haircut, or with a color, or with just the hug. Or, most importantly, you have to really feel it yourself too. I try to tell my team [inaudible]. You have to nurture the nurturer, and you have to make sure that you feel good, because you can’t pass it on if you’re not feeling good. If you’re half empty, then you’re not going to be able to make that happen.

So enhancing the total beauty that lies within the soul is to find out where is that, and is it very deep, or is it already there? I mean, some people come in with it right on their sleeve. It’s easy to just enhance it and then celebrate with it. And others [inaudible] have to work with.

The ripple effect

Scott: [Clip begins mid-sentence.] The ripple effect that we do as hairdressers. It’s quite amazing that a woman can come in and feel very down, and you don’t know what her life is like and what she left, but she’s giving herself 45 minutes or two hours. She then leaves and touches her children and her life. The ripple effect of that is quite amazing and quite powerful.

Mentorship

Scott: This industry’s given me a lot of gifts that I never thought I could have. I was a low self-esteem, very scared child, who lost his mom very young. I didn’t really think I’d amount to much. Finding mentors, which I think today, people don’t have as many mentors, and mentorship is, you know, TikTok, or something along those lines. And I think really finding mentors and people to help you and inspire, and being a mentor. Now it’s my chance to give back.

Giving back

Scott: I’m sober 29 years. Someone said to me once, early on, I said, I can’t help that person. They said, yes, you can. You have 10 days sober and they have one. Tell them how you got to 10. So you can always teach and train. There’s always something you can give back. If you just think about it, it doesn’t have to be grand. It could be a smile, a hand, an ear, a hug.

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